Criminal Justice Reform Episodes
Explore conversations about prison reform, rehabilitation, sentencing, and transforming the criminal justice system.
104: Pamela Metzger on Systemic Justice Reform
Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/j_ArBxK8Gfk Pamela Metzger, Director of the Deason Criminal Justice Reform Center at SMU, shares her transformative journey as a dedicated public defender who navigated the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, advocating for thousands of detainees in New Orleans. Discover how this life-changing experience led to systemic reforms in criminal justice, focusing on the right to counsel and prosecutorial practices. Learn about the innovative approaches being implemented to ensure justice and empathy in the legal system. Chapters: 0:00 - Clip 0:56 - Intro 1:32 - What Motivates You? 4:50 - Law School 6:54 - Upbringing 12:14 - Women's Resources 17:24 - Steps After Law School 20:33 - Running University Clinics 22:25 - Katrina 37:20 - When You Were Recruited 42:47 - AI 52:02 - Randomized Control 58:01 - Deason Criminal Justice Reform Center 59:37 - To Those Who Think Everyone in CJ System is Bad 1:06:44 - Reaching Across the Aisle 1:12:42 - Passions Outside of Criminal Justice 1:16:43 - Most Grateful for 1:18:53 - Snap Your Fingers 1:20:37 - How to Support Pamela Metzger: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pamela-metzger-07b90715a/ Deason Criminal Justice Reform Center: https://www.linkedin.com/company/deasoncenter/ https://www.smu.edu/law/centers-and-initiatives/deason-center https://www.instagram.com/smulawdeason/ Host: Jeffrey M. Zucker Producer: Kait Grey Editor: Nick Case Recording date: 1/30/25
S5E9 (episode #49): Ana Zamora on funding just change in the criminal justice system
In this episode, Ana and Jeffrey discuss Ana’s career journey, how she was drawn into the criminal justice reform, and how she’s ended up going further than she even could have dreamt. Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/WROp4iIBFFs Host: Jeffrey M. Zucker Producer: Kait Grey Editor: Nick Case Learn more: Recording date: 2/28/23 Ana: https://twitter.com/anarzamora https://www.linkedin.com/in/ana-zamora-6180ab17/ The Just Trust: https://www.thejusttrust.org/ https://twitter.com/thejusttrust https://www.facebook.com/TheJustTrust/ https://www.instagram.com/thejusttrust/ Other resources: https://www.openhousesf.org/ Ana: Until I crossed over into philanthropy in 2018, I spent my career fighting on the front lines of criminal justice reform—as an organizer, advocate, and campaigner. I’ve been in the trenches of this work when we lost way more than we won. I know the deep, painful sting of losing a major campaign that you’ve thrown your whole heart into. I also know what it feels like to be part of progress. It’s these experiences that built my advocacy chops and taught me that the pathway to real change is crooked, rife with setbacks, and that no map exists to help you traverse it. My journey began in an administrative role with the California Appellate Project, an organization that provides legal services to people in California facing execution. There I learned about the harm and stigma that our punitive, unforgiving system has on communities and families, including my own. I then spent the next ten years working at the ACLU, ultimately as director of criminal justice reform. Using integrated advocacy, I worked to advance issues including sentencing reform, reducing use of the death penalty, legislative and administrative reforms around wrongful convictions, and greater prosecutorial accountability through voter education and engagement. During these years, I also served in leadership roles in two California ballot measures: as Deputy Campaign Manager for Yes on 34 in 2012 and as Campaign Manager for No on 66 in 2016. And I launched the first ever statewide prosecutor accountability campaign, simply called: “Meet Your DA.” In my advocacy life, I was deeply frustrated with the extreme lack of resources in our movement—especially for organizations with directly impacted leaders. I saw philanthropy as a critical unlock and eventually moved into a new role as director of criminal justice reform at the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative (CZI), which became one of the largest funders of frontline criminal justice reform work in the country—a $143 million portfolio in just under three years. My team at CZI backed key wins like Measure 110 in Oregon to decriminalize all drug possession; helped defeat Proposition 20 in California, which sought to roll back key justice reforms; funded the Clean Slate Initiative, supporting record-clearing policies for millions of people in Pennsylvania, Utah, Michigan, and other states; and, importantly, supported countless reform and organizing efforts led by directly impacted groups, in states often passed over like West Virginia, Kentucky, and North Carolina. In my personal life, I am proud to serve on the Board of Directors of Openhouse in San Francisco, which serves LGBTQ+ seniors. It’s an honor and a privilege to now lead The Just Trust—where I get to wear all of my hats and channel the stings of losses, the glory of wins, and the hope that I feel from across this powerful, diverse, ever-evolving fight for justice, safety, and wellbeing.
S4E9 (episode 39): Jared Fishman on fixing inequalities in the justice system
In this episode, Jared and Jeffrey discuss Jared’s career journey through the middle east, law school, becoming a civil rights attorney, being in a dad garage band, and much more… Watch this episode on YouTube Learn more: Justice Innovation Lab Website - https://www.justiceinnovationlab.org/ Twitter - https://twitter.com/Lab4Justice Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/lab4justice/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/Lab4Justice LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/justice-innovation-lab/ YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNI8MsJACp5gJDImRXUKANQ Jared Fishman is the founder and executive director of Justice Innovation Lab, an organization that designs data-informed solutions for a more equitable and effective justice system. Justice Innovation Lab uses a collaborative approach to help justice system decision-makers identify and fix inequities in their jurisdictions. Prior to founding Justice Innovation Lab, Jared served for 14 years as a prosecutor in the Department of Justice’s Civil Rights Division. He led some of the most complex civil rights prosecutions in the country, securing convictions in high-profile cases involving police misconduct, hate crimes and human trafficking. Jared received multiple awards from the Department of Justice for distinguished service, including the Civil Rights Division’s highest award for excellence in legal advocacy. Over the last decade, Jared has handled some of the country’s most significant prosecutions of police misconduct. He was the lead federal attorney prosecuting a North Charleston, South Carolina, police officer for fatally shooting Walter Scott in the back, though Scott, an African-American, was unarmed and posed no threat. Jared and his team secured a conviction in the federal case, a rare example of a police officer being held accountable in a police shooting. Jared regularly speaks on issues of data-driven justice reform, police accountability, hate crimes, and human trafficking, and has trained international and local police, prosecutors, and judges on best practices in these areas. He serves as adjunct faculty at the George Washington University Law School and Georgetown University. His work and analysis have been featured on CNN, CBS, CBC, and in the New York Times and the Washington Post. Jared earned his law degree from the George Washington University Law School, and his bachelor’s degree from the University of Pennsylvania. He began his career at the U.S. State Department, where he worked to rebuild legal systems in post-war Kosovo. He also served as a line prosecutor at the Washington, DC, US Attorney's Office, where he handled domestic violence and sex crimes cases.
S4E2 (episode 32): Douglas Berman on the human element of criminal justice and drug policy
In this episode, Doug and Jeffrey discuss the human element of criminal justice and drug policy, Doug’s career journey, and much more… Watch this episode on YouTube Learn more: Doug’s Twitter, Blog Ohio State Drug Enforcement and Policy Center Referenced study on cannabis making people more empathetic Professor Douglas A. Berman is Newton D. Baker-Baker & Hostetler Chair in Law at The Ohio State University Moritz College of Law and Executive Director of the Drug Enforcement and Policy Center, housed in the Moritz College of Law. Berman’s principal teaching and research focus is in the area of criminal law and criminal sentencing, though he also has teaching and practice experience in the fields of legislation and intellectual property. He has taught Criminal Law, Criminal Punishment and Sentencing, Criminal Procedure–Investigation, The Death Penalty, Legislation, Introduction to Intellectual Property, Marijuana Law, Policy & Reform Seminar, Federal and State Clemency Decision-making, Sentencing Law & Policy, and the Legislation Clinic. Professor Berman attended Princeton University and Harvard Law School. In law school, he was an editor and developments office chair of the Harvard Law Review and also served as a teaching assistant for a Harvard University philosophy course. After graduation from law school in 1993, Professor Berman served as a law clerk for Judge Jon O. Newman and then for Judge Guido Calabresi, both on the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit. After clerking, Professor Berman was a litigation associate at the law firm of Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton, and Garrison in New York City. Professor Berman is the co-author of two casebooks. Sentencing Law and Policy: Cases, Statutes and Guidelines, published by Aspen Publishers, is now in its fifth edition. Marijuana Law and Policy, was released by Carolina Academic Press in 2020. In addition to authoring numerous publications on topics ranging from capital punishment to the federal sentencing guidelines, Professor Berman has served as an editor of the Federal Sentencing Reporter for more than a decade, and also now serves as co-managing editor of the Ohio State Journal of Criminal Law. Professor Berman is the sole creator and author of the widely-read and widely-cited blog, Sentencing Law and Policy and also the blog Marijuana Law, Policy and Reform.
S3E7 (episode 27): Veronica Wright on the importance of drug legalization
In this episode, Veronica and Jeffrey discuss her career path, how she changed her mind on drugs and why they should be legal, balancing her 9-5 with her nonprofit work, and much more… Watch this episode on YouTube Learn more: NCDL website, donate Veronica Twitter Veronica Wright is the founder of the National Coalition for Drug Legalization, a nonprofit (501 c 3) that supports drug legalization through research and community outreach. She is a blossoming community leader and change advocate for criminal justice reform. As a strong advocate for such issues as eliminating mandatory minimums, reducing prosecutorial overreach, obliteration of all elements contributing to the prison industrial complex, and bail reform, she works hard to build partnerships with organizations and people who shares her desire for change.
S3E5 (episode 25): Amy Barch on better re-entry and reducing recidivism
In this episode, Amy and Jeffrey discuss her path to starting Turn90, what the future holds for the organization, second chance hiring, reducing recidivism, and much more… Watch this episode on YouTube Learn more: Turn90 website, donate, print shop, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter Amy Twitter In 2012, Amy Barch founded Turn90, nonprofit with the mission to help men succeed after prison. Prison reentry became her life’s passion after an internship in a local jail helping incarcerated individuals earn their GED. Turn90 (formerly Turning Leaf) has received national attention for its innovative, therapeutic approach to reentry, and is currently expanding its footprint by opening a second location in Columbia and a third in upstate South Carolina. Amy earned a Bachelor’s in Law, Societies and Justice from the University of Washington and is currently earning a Master’s in Criminal Justice at Arizona State University. She has called Charleston her home since 2010.
S3E4 (episode 24): Antong Lucky on criminal justice reform and ending gang violence
In this episode, Antong and Jeffrey discuss Antong’s path including starting the Bloods gang in Dallas at age 14, reforming himself while incarcerated, dedicating his life to ending gang violence, and much more… Watch this episode on YouTube Learn more: Antong Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, LinkedIn Urban Specialists website, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram Heal America website, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube Get Antong’s book Todd Rose’s books Antong Lucky, the founder and former leader of the Dallas 415 Blood Gang, is now the President of Urban Specialists, a national nonprofit dedicated to disrupting trends of violence and poverty in urban communities. At an early age Lucky was a talented and gifted student. His love of school and straight A’s was no match for the neighborhood he encountered. Lucky succumbed to his environment and became embroiled in crime and gang violence that landed him in prison. Antong denounced his gang affiliation in prison, started reading a lot of books to educate himself and began working to unite rival gangs. Antong quickly rose to become one of the most sought mentors in prison. His teachings of accountability and conflict resolution taught fellow inmates how not to use violence as their primary language but instead practice peace. Antong has spent the last twenty two years working to end violence in communities by training traditional and non traditional change makers to effectively mentor youth away from a life of gangs, crime and violence. Most recently, Antong is working with the chief of Police in Dallas developing strategies with community to address systemic issues along with violence and effective strategies to address violence and poverty. Antong is a sought after speaker on issues of eradicating violence, reentry, Criminal Justice Reform and bridging the gap between law enforcement and community.
S3E3 (episode 23): Patrick Fitzgibbons on criminal justice, mental health
In this episode, Patrick and Jeffrey discuss criminal justice reform, unique needs of first responders for mental healthcare, Patrick’s own recovery, and more… Watch this episode on YouTube Learn more: CJ Evolution Podcast website, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter Get Patricks book Evolve FHE website, Shatterproof First Responders’ Program, YouTube, Facebook, Instagram Patrick Fitzgibbons is a retired Police Commander from Colorado with over two decades of experience in various capacities. He is also a military veteran serving with the 82nd Airborne at Fort Bragg, NC. Patrick holds advanced degrees in Organizational Development and Leadership. Patrick is a part time college professor and enjoys mentoring and coaching the next generation of criminal justice professionals. Patrick is an avid supporter of first responders and The US Military. Patrick is also a sought-after speaker and coach to criminal justice organizations and personnel. Patrick enjoys spending time with his family and friends, taking care of his body and mind, and of course being the host and creator of the Criminal Justice Evolution podcast.
S3E1 (episode 21): DA Beth McCann on improving our criminal justice system
In this episode, DA McCann and Jeffrey discuss her career journey, changing laws at the legislative level and seeing them in action as DA, changing the criminal justice system, para-skiing, and more… Watch this episode on YouTube Learn more: Denver District Attorney website Denver DA Twitter Denver DA LinkedIn Restorative Denver The Conflict Center Juvenile Diversion Program Turning Over a New Leaf Beth is the current District Attorney in Denver, having been sworn in on Jan 11, 2017. Prior to this, she served 8 years as the State Representative for House District 8 in North and Central Denver. She spent several years in the Colorado Attorney General’s office as the Deputy in charge of civil litigation and employment law. She was the first female Manager of Safety in Mayor Webb’s administration, supervising the police, sheriff, and fire departments. She practiced law for 8 years with a private firm and she also spent several years in the Denver District Attorney’s office as a deputy and chief deputy district attorney, handling hundreds of cases. She clerked for US District Judge Sherman Finesilver. She was a founding mother of the Colorado Women’s Bar Association and served as its president. She has served on many boards and committees. Beth obtained her law degree from Georgetown University Law Center and her undergraduate degree from Wittenberg University. She is married and has two children.
S2E10 (episode 20): Alice Marie Johnson on making the most of prison and sentencing reform
In this episode, Alice and Jeffrey discussed her journey to and from prison, making the most of time incarcerated, criminal justice and sentencing reform, the importance of telling stories of the incarcerated, and much more. Watch this episode on YouTube Learn more: Alice Instagram, Twitter Taking Action for Good Website, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter Alice’s book: After Life: My Journey from Incarceration to Freedom Alice Marie Johnson is a former federal prisoner turned advocate who received worldwide attention when Kim Kardashian West advocated for her release from a mandatory life sentence without parole for a first-time nonviolent drug case. After almost 22 years in federal prison, Alice was granted clemency in 2018 by President Trump and a full pardon in 2020. Her powerful story has been deemed a “catalyst” for the passage of the First Step Act, the most significant criminal justice legislation in recent history. Today, as the founder and CEO of Taking Action for Good, Alice puts human faces to problems in our justice system and provides a powerful voice for those who are unable to speak for themselves. She advocates for clemency and pardons for deserving individuals, policy changes that focus on redemption and rehabilitation instead of punishment, and reforms that provide hope and opportunity instead of prison time. Her story is chronicled in her memoir, After Life: My Journey from Incarceration to Freedom. Alice was honored as one of four women designated as a “Women’s Right Defender” at the United Nations on International Women’s Day, received the CAOC Advocate for Justice Award in 2019, and just recently an Ebony Power 100 Honoree.. She has appeared on numerous media outlets advocating for criminal justice reform and has been a featured speaker and panelist at countless events and summits. Her fight continues!
S2E9 (episode 19): Jason Wang on second chances after incarceration
In this episode, Jason and Jeffrey discuss Jason’s very difficult upbringing as a child of immigrants, how he ended up in the criminal justice system, and ultimately how he changed his life and the lives of many others for the better. Along the way, he became an entrepreneur, a catalyst for change, and an incredible example for those re-entering society after incarceration. Watch this episode on YouTube Learn more: FreeWorld website, Twitter, Facebook, Linkedin Jason Twitter At the age of 15, Jason Wang was given a 12-year sentence at a maximum security prison in Texas. Upon release he earned two master’s degrees and was still unable to find a job due to his criminal history. Jason decided to become an agent for change. He started FreeWorld. FreeWorld empowers people who have been in prison with educational support and technical skills to enter into high wage, high demand careers so they can live fulfilling lives, prison free. FreeWorld aims to break the cycle of recidivism and generational poverty by demonstrating the potential of reentering citizens creating meaningful career pathways and providing critical support services for the individuals and their families to overcome significant barriers. Jason’s full story
S2E6 (episode 16): Halim Flowers on starting an empire while incarcerated, sentencing reform
In this episode, Halim and Jeffrey discuss the need for criminal justice reform, Halim’s 22 years in prison and the policy it led him to pursue, the incredible creative empire he’s building, and more… Learn more: Halim website, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube Ideallionaires Instagram Rising DC artist defies stereotypes while delivering a powerful message Halim: “My mission is to love everyone unconditionally all of the time. I use photography, painting, poetry, and spoken word to further my love revolution. Through my love revolution, my purpose is to live the love that I want to see in the world to inspire others to love radically beyond the superficial barriers that serve to separate us from seeing how we are all connected to each other.”